Two to three years seems to be a natural cycle between albums for most bands. I've learnt that much these past few months publishing old interviews from 2008 and 2009 only to realise the bands in question have just released new albums. Embrace of Thorns' new album is entitled Praying for Absolution. And as you can hear for yourself, while the album's not a masterpiece, the best songs there are still pretty darn convincing.
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"Second Death"
An interview with Archfiend DevilPig of Embrace of Thorns.
Originally published in Serpentscope I, October 2009.
“The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born must first destroy a world.” (Herman Hesse, Demian)
What of death/black metal embryos, then? Do we expect them to destroy metaphorically the world of black/death metal tradition we’ve come to love? Do we expect them to be antagonists or to comply with practically every aspect of the tradition? Is this conformity or totalitarianism? Should the bands that see tradition as limitation be told to kindly fuck off? Talk about a rhetorical question...
Talk about the embryo that was to become death/black metal, then. Bestial in its very origin, death/black metal has lately seen a growing emphasis on the more primitive/primordial aspects that lately got washed under a wave of theology and philosophy. These days “Bestial Metal” - the term dubbed by Zero Tolerance writer Nathan T Birk - is applied to a huge number of death/black metal bands. What is bestiality for Embrace of Thorns’ Archfiend DevilPig and how does that come through in his music and actions?
- Bestial metal, yes I found out about that term recently. Bestiality is for us to channel impurity, filth and utter darkness into music. Of course the way can vary from band to band, even early Sodom were bestial and filthy back in the day. It all has to do with certain feelings that music creates. It can be only violence or it can be amplified by a certain aura, we use some oppressive and suffocating elements in our material, I have noticed that our stuff has a growing impact, one can fully envision our stuff after some listens. As far as actions are concerned, well we abstain from the lowest common denominator herd, metal or non metal, but don’t expect us bragging about certain actions, no blatant words here, sometimes silence is deafening.
- After all we lead our lifes and we are not kids anymore…
For a scene so keen on laying waste to others, we seem to be less eager to see our own destruction. The aforementioned subgenre-of-sorts might be seen as the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the strictness of both image and music. It’s definitely a metal subgenre where the role of tradition in how new bands take their form is huge. How do you see the relation between the likes of Blasphemy, Beherit, Von and, say, Varathron on the one hand, and Embrace of Thorns on the other hand? Do you think you owe something to these legends?
- It should be this way, if the persons behind are serious and conscious then it’s even better. Yes I agree it carries the torch of an extreme metal tradition from the early 80ies, namely from Bathory, Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Possessed, Slayer, Venom up to Sarcofago, Blasphemy and Beherit. I think that we somehow continue the work of the bands you mentioned, and yes we owe a lot to all of our influences, old school metal is the finest agenda when it comes to getting influenced and in terms of playing an instrument or presenting a band. I admit that we are more fans than musicians so our case is pretty much that we try to do justice to early speed/thrash/death/black metal icons and then to add our own elements. Yet I think that the fanaticism of the UG bands is bigger nowadays, back then everyone was trying to break through the mainstream, in our times staying UG is a choice not a result…
How would you describe the meaning and power of this kind of image to you personally?
- It’s intense. It carries a magic, an obscurity, it’s so mystical, of course when I started getting in touch with those bands it was more intense but it’s still great, I think that this imagery, even if it’s getting a bit trendy, is a fist in the face of all lifemetallers and mainstream clowns. When strong music carries the proper image then it’s pure magic, mind altering…
Strong, magical, mind-altering – now there are powerful words for you. In all honesty, though, for me those three concepts have always been subordinate to one thing: intensity. And don’t you dare mistake intensity for mere speed or heaviness. A band may very well be intense and penetrating in 25 bpm. Although much of the Atonement Ritual album, the latest Embrace of Thorns output, employs a somewhat higher tempo, the album all but loses its intensity in the more mid-tempo songs such as the ominous Venom in Veins. Atonement Ritual also boasts some simple yet effective melodies and leads, which make songs like Perdition Hammer definite growers. These elements may not earn Embrace of Thorns the evanescent privilege of originality, but they sure make the band stand up from the masses of bestial death/black metal. The band bio reads: “Inspired by the real forces of demonic, morbid and obscure black/death metal Embrace of Thorns create their own soundscapes of chaos and destruction.” Firstly, is there anything constructive for you in Embrace of Thorns and its aims? Secondly, in your opinion, what makes these soundscapes of chaos and destruction your own?
- I think that despite our influences and overall references what you get from Embrace of Thorns is something quite different than a mere bestial clone. We have worked hard towards this direction and we shall dismiss any possible weak riff or arrangement. Yes I think that our aims are constructive, otherwise there would be no band and this interview as well. Personally I wouldn’t get used to playing in a generic/hobby oriented band, I have been in shitty bands and it hurts when you are the only conscious member in such formations.
- A constructive aim, for example, is to escalate upwards in terms of quality, not to plagiarize, to try and to create something that you will be proud of for the years to come, to leave a legacy, if it’s possible nowadays…
TO CONTEMPLATE THE RUINS OF MEN
Another thing that is closely linked to this kind of music is the sort of language that Embrace of Thorns use in the song titles and lyrics. The rhetoric used is fairly traditional, but do you think that it has a saturation point of sort - that those words and expressions can in time come redundant and empty?
- They might, in some cases, but it always shows. In our case the lyrics can be pretty unpredictable, the first album was more hateful and the second is more spiritual, no matter how redundant the lyric lines might be, they should always evoke certain feelings, and the lyrics should be cleverly written and dark as the mouth of abyss. I’m in favour of Euronymous’ quotes, evil words fit evil music, there’s no need for crossover stuff. I will never claim that all bands in the genre hand in powerful texts but most of them serve the purpose even if their lyrics are naïve.
In both Atonement Ritual and the band’s earlier material there are at times references to sexual imagery - for example, Impure Orgasm, Ceremonial Rites of Fornication and The Virtuous Whore. Again, this is not unusual to this kind of black metal, as there have been an incredible number of bands that have utilised similar imagery. In your opinion, what makes this kind of music so disposed and open to sexual imagery? Can the music itself be sexualised?
- Impure Orgasm is a reference to Nemesis of Impurity, a story too personal to be revealed, Ceremonial Rites is about a goetia mass, and has tantric magic references too, and finally Virtuous Whore is a mockery of virgin mary, quite a lot of influences here. Well yes I think there’s room for sexual imagery in satanic music, since sexuality represents the freedom of flesh and spirit, so it’s downright satanic reference. The difference of this imagery when compared to the cheap porn/gore lyrics of some bands should be obvious. I don’t agree with the denial of carnality that some bands propagate.
Yet another traditional aspect that Embrace of Thorns chose to stand fast with was hiring Chris Moyen to craft the art for the Atonement Ritual album. One could see beheading Christ, which is the act depicted on the album cover, as “atonement,” i.e. payback/revenge of sorts. So do you think Christ could - metaphorically - ever lose his head too many times, or do you think that the power/energy in this central image will last forever?
- “Atonement” and its meanings can be interpreted in countless ways: atonement for the suffering, betrayal, an accomplishment, the destruction of a living scourge, atonement against certain weak ideals and lifestyles. As long as there is established religion of any kind this symbol will be targeted by bands and maybe not only bands, and vice versa. As long as Man is frail and feeble, he will lean towards religion, and if the materialistic spirit of the last decades couldn’t eradicate religion, nothing will. We among others shall remain claiming that the individual can rise from its frail self and transform into a god, sort of a god. In fact black metal kinda needs religion, for obvious reasons. There will never be a campaign or a beat up your local priest crusade. The satanic ways are individualistic. And how the fuck could they be, “black metal socialism” or what?
Did I hear someone shout “Social Darwinism”? On the cover of their 2004 demo The Inevitable Twilight of the Judeochristian Lie, Embrace of Thorns labelled themselves “Raw Nietzchean Black Metal.” Where do you stand as regards anti-christianity, nihilism and satanism - which of these concepts comes closest to representing you?
- Nietzsche’s greatest offering to philosophy was/is the strife for self enlightenment, improvement, with self godhood as the final goal, I still embrace this philosophy. Overall I think that the satanic philosophy is quite close to representing me, I think the previous answers clearly portray what I/we stand for.
In an interview with Zero Tolerance (#30) Archfiend DevilPig states that: “I always thought that the genuine dark undercurrent within this band was / is more important than the music itself.” Besides music, then, what functions does the band fulfill in his life? What is Embrace of Thorns besides music?
- Fuckin’ completion, pleasure and satisfaction, by playing this kind of stuff I feed the ominous winds of my soul and body. Embrace of Thorns is 50 % of my life, and a high priority in other bandmembers’ lives, consider that we are not a touring band. Besides music, Embrace of Thorns could be described as a vision and a vessel towards spheres unknown and mysterious. Essence through spiritual and musical darkness. I think that with each of our works we have sunk deeper to the core of darkness and pure evil and this is something not related to music. In contrast to several bands that have grown milder we have become more fanatical and more conscious towards our desired direction: Total darkness.
In the same interview he also concludes that “I think we have at least one good album to deliver after Atonement Ritual, but after all, I'm lead by some demons.” It’s healthy to read something like this, when so many bands don’t evidently realise when their time is up. But now that the man has promised us at least one good album after Atonement Ritual, how does he plan to execute it?
- I think it’s healthy to know when you need to stop, and this is something that new bands within this subgenre seem to realize. Most of the new bands are quite old in age, conscious fans and will never live off of their music, thus they do this thing because they really adore it, therefore they will not, I hope, leave it dragging in the mud. We all need to understand that this music is a burner. It’s a music of huge efforts and questionable accomplishments. I feel that we have accomplished an “artistic“ success, and I’m happy with this result, I think that Atonement Ritual is not a cheap album, its flames are evergrowing and omnidevouring. When this flame, this current, this wholeistic process ceases, then it’s time to depart. We don’t intend to become cult icons or statues or symbols of a genre and we won’t shove uninspired music to people’s ears. As for the next album, I don’t have a clue, there are no plans or schedules involved, my instinct tells me that we are able to satisfy ourselves for at least one more time… Our goal is to record an album more malicious more cathartic and more serpentine than Atonement Ritual.
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